Sunday, July 9, 2017

EXCLUSIVE: Upheaval In Church of God Big Sandy and CEM (Christian Educational Ministries)



NOTE:  James Malm, after reading the story below, decided to take the story and spin it in his own usual malevolent way, by making the family the guilty party instead of Havir III.  This is the ongoing narrative that the COG has continued to use for 80 some years as it continues to make excuses or do anything about hundreds and hundreds of pedophiles (not the issue in this case), sexual abusers, stalkers and rapists that have been loose in the church and have been left to roam freely unencumbered.


The following was received from highly reliable confidential sources regarding an explosive situation that is brewing in the Church of God Big Sandy (Dave Havir) and with Christian Education Ministries (Allie Dart.)  COGBS members are deeply concerned over recent events that have rocked the church.






The following is a brief summary from a person (not a member of any COG) who attended the hearing at the Wood County Texas Courthouse on July 6, 2017 concerning David Havir III and his alleged improper relationship with a minor child.   David Havir III is son of Church of God Big Sandy pastor, Dave Havir.

Current board members for Church of God Big Sandy are:
David Havir III (Church Treasurer)
Reg Killingly
Carole Bald
Ronald Avey
Neal McIver
Melody Eishon
Clay Forestiere

A few days before the hearing, David Havir III had been fired as vice president of operations at Ron Dart’s (now deceased) religious organization, Christian Educational Ministries, in Whitehouse Texas.  The current board members of CEM are:
Allie Dart
John Garnant (elder for United Church of God, an International   Association)
John Beasley
Rod Martin
Willie Oxidyne

The week before the hearing, David Havir III was at church youth camp at Timberline Baptist Camp in Lindale Texas.  The camp was sponsored by Church of God Big Sandy. 

In attendance at the hearing were David Havir III, Neal McIver, the minor girl, the girl’s mother (Mrs. Rex), the girl’s father (Mr. Moody), and the minor girl’s 19 year old sister (Karina Moody).  (The minor girl’s parents are divorced.)  There was also a prosecutor representing Wood County, a lawyer representing David Havir III, and a lawyer representing Mr. Moody.

1.    The complaint had been filed by the minor daughter’s mother, Mrs. Rex.  (Case number 2017-357.)
2.    Prosecutor was Jim Wheeler.
3.    The judge was Jeff Fletcher.
4.    At the beginning of the hearing, Mr. Moody stated he was there to support his minor daughter.
5.    The first witness was Mrs. Rex who stated that she was the mother and a member of the Church of God of Big Sandy.  She accused David Havir III of inappropriate conduct with her daughter.  The mother said she saw about 12,000 phone texts that had been sent to the daughter by David Havir III.  The daughter responded with about 9,000 texts back to David Havir III.  Mrs. Rex said that the minor daughter’s personality started changing on March 16, 2017 when Karina and Mrs. Rex were going to go prom dress shopping.  The minor daughter refused to go and wanted to stay with David Havir III.  Mrs. Rex told her that she would not be staying with him and would not be meeting with him.  The minor daughter threw a fit and became very defiant.
6.    There were also photos sent by the minor daughter to David Havir III and the photos were shown to the judge and to Mrs. Rex only.  The prosecutor implied that the pictures were nudes.  
7.    There were also pictures taken of the minor daughter looking out a glass door with Karina and sent to David Havir III from Karina’s and the minor daughter’s phones during their vacation.
8.    The mother also saw the minor daughter and David Havir III ‘snuggling’ on the couch with his arm around the minor daughter.  So Mrs. Rex’s assumption was that, if they snuggled in front of her, then they did it when no one was there.
9.    There was a cybernet app on the phone that the mother tried to use to restrict phone use.
10.Next witness was the minor daughter’s sister, Karina.   Karina said that David Havir III and the minor daughter did ‘snuggle’ on the couch when they were around her.  She said that David Havir III was a father figure to her sister and that he was only trying to help her.  
11.The judge’s ruling was that the relationship with the minor daughter was “definitely inappropriate.”  However, he was not ordering a restraining order at this time, but he “highly recommended” to David Havir III that he needed to change his behavior toward the minor daughter.



47 comments:

Anonymous said...

Will Living Church of God affirm that its employee David Meredith never engaged in inappropriate conduct with an underage girl?

It seems that being employed by an ACOG organization doesn't exempt a man from inappropriate behavior. What exactly is this "conversion" that ACOG members claim to have?

Anonymous said...

You can't be serious. The LCG has covered up this story and of other abusers in the employ of the church. In almost every case the child or the woman was considered to be the one at fault. The ministry and employees are incapable of ever making a mistake and are never held accountable, particularly when they have ties to the top leadership. LCG has to be one of the most corrupt COG's out there.

Byker Bob said...

There is an Armstrongism cliche that God switched from angels to humans because He wants to make sure there are no more Satans in the future. Considering all of the moral failures that happen on a regular basis in the ACOGs, which all claim to be "God's True Church", that cliche cannot be accurate. Here is a young man who built enough character, and qualified for a leadership position, and yet.....

Oh well. Fortunately, they violated another precept, the one about going to secular court for redress. Let's just see what happens. Who knows what David III's father would have done about this?

BB

Anonymous said...

http://txwoododyprod.tylerhost.net/PublicAccess/CaseDetail.aspx?CaseID=276627

You may search this Wood Couny website - pick type of records

http://txwoododyprod.tylerhost.net/PublicAccess/default.aspx

Then type in Havir David in the appropriate search field, which brings you to here-

http://txwoododyprod.tylerhost.net/PublicAccess/Search.aspx?ID=200

nck said...

These people should heed the boundaries set by their respective societies for their type of interaction.

The man should heed the advice of the judge as servant of that society.
The young woman should be taught that thousands of years of experimenting have already established who is the weaker sex. She should not take advantage of her inexperience in wielding her extreme powers over men.

That witchcraft should be reserved in a yoking with equally inexperienced specimens defined as "dudes." I heard that this experience with "dudes" is a most nasty experience for women but teaches them for life since in reality men just do not seem to "grow up" as time passes. Especially not in the exclusive presence of young women who have not recognized this trait in men yet.

The appointed servant of society seems to have limited himself to advicing the parties involved. It would be good to heed that advice in order to be a respected part of it. Society can be a tough enforcer.

nck



Redfox712 said...

What awful news. May justice be done. May all those in the COGs guilty of similar things also be brought to justice.

Anonymous said...

seems to me that if the pics had been nudes the judge would have done more than "highly recommend" that Dave change his behavior toward the girl....

but then, judges aren't necessarily the best and brightest either....

Anonymous said...

I used to have bible study with Mr. Ed Mitchell, who was associated with the Church Of God (Big Sandy). I has a difficult time trusting David Havir, and it seems my gut feelings were right.

Anonymous said...

BB
My bible does mention 'weeping and gnashing of teeth' (your moral failures), so yes, there will be no more Satans and demons allowed into the kingdom.
This means no deceptive Herb in the kingdom.
.

Connie Schmidt said...

From Dave Havir III "linked in" profile...

Serves in a variety of positions as a long-time, active member of the church body. Strives to assist in meeting the physical, emotional, and spiritual needs of the church members, community, and associated members worldwide through coordinating youth classes and activities and directing outreach programs.

Key Contributions:
* Develops written and oral communications for board members and congregation.
* Manages sound booth including phone and internet streaming equipment and training of new volunteers.
* Teaches teen classes, develops/manages program budget, and organizes activities, travel, and events.

Connie Schmidt said...

Facebook profile of Havir shows him married and with a daughter. There must be great anguish and turmoil in several families lives, and certainly undeservedly by Allie Dart.

I am really ticked that he has stained the wonderful legacy of Ronald Dart as well. Ron worked very hard to be above board and true. I count Ron Dart as one of the greatest influences in my life.

Jhon Crapper said...

Ron Dart was a good man, probably one of the rare and few ministers from the acog that had a kind heart.

nck said...

Oh Connie,

You little investigator you.

If you look up Dave Havir III on "google pictures" the "you make me feel some type of way" picture from "banned" pops up also. I nearly choked in my cup of tea.

For now I have to go buy the experience and wisdom of the judge. As long as the judge takes the position he/she is taking I also go for the "anguish and turmoil" scenario. Nothing seems to be "stained" in any Lewinskyan way, so far. I hope this issue can be resolved with a little crying and a little spanking as has been done for over 6000 years. And if indeed he is married I'd say 6 months of sleeping on the couch.

nck

Lake of Fire Church of God said...

It wouldn't be "God's Church" without a good sex scandal given the R/WCG history going all the way back to Herbert Armstrong in the 1940s given the preponderance of evidence regarding incest with daughter Dorothy. Of course, there is "In Bed with Garner Ted" and later the masseuse tape.

Connie, Havir's linkedin profile shows only 1 connection - he hasn't been very active on linkedin. BTW, I tired to look you up to connect with you as we are connected by the Banned by HWA site and the WCG. I couldn't find you - too many Connie Schmidts. I am active on Linkedin with over 1,000 connections.

I went to the Court Link provided by Anonymous 7:27 PM. Dave Havir III has one criminal case - a seat belt violation. This matter with the minor child (child's name is disclosed on case record) is a civil matter, not a criminal case. It appears a temporary restraining order was issued.

This post caught my attention as I once met his father, Dave Havir (Father). The father Dave Havir officiated my father's funeral in 1983.

Richard



Anonymous said...

Those of us associated with CEM are very worried that once Allie Dart dies that Church of God Big Sandy will swoop in and take over. That is the last thing that needs to happen. While we love our friends in COGBS, we do not want the leaders of COGBS to have anything to do with us. There are more issues involved with the COGBS leadership than has been exposed here. I hope those on the board in CEM do not let any merger take place.

Anonymous said...

A teenage girl should never ever be snuggling with a grown man/father figure. He needs he ass beat

Anonymous said...

I saw Malm's deceitful posting about this. I have also noticed that he regularly steals stuff from here and the Church of God News site and pretends he has been secretly sent the same information. He twists it around just like he does Bible Scripture.

Anonymous said...

I stay away from Linkedin to avoid being monitored by ministers or harassed by active/former members. Ministers and their lackeys keep informal files on dissidents, hoping for an opportunity to use it as a club against them. Just like inside their own churches. I've had outside sources confirm this.
Predatory wolves read these blogs.

Lake of Fire Church of God said...

Anonymous July 10, 2017 at 9:24 AM said, "While we love our friends in COGBS, we do not want the leaders of COGBS to have anything to do with us".

MY COMMENT - Typical of the splintered Armstrong movement post Herbert Armstrong's death. Continued disintegration of the movement until there is nothing left. None of them have the mentality of consolidation even for the sake of their dying and vanishing movement. After all, there is no more Ambassador College. Grand parent to the Worldwide Church of God, the Seventh Day Adventist Church, has Andrews University founded in 1874 and going for 143 years. But the clowns in the Armstrong Churches of God can't keep Ambassador College going beyond 50 years.

Let me see if I can get this right Anonymous, you say "we love our friends in COGBS", but you don't trust the leaders of COGBS to have anything to do with CEM. You don't trust the entire named Board? Aren't they God's Church too? Aren't they your brethren?

You state here are more issues involved with the COGBS leadership than has been exposed here. Tell us more please. Give us a hint.

Richard

Helen Wheels said...

The only person mentioned in this story that I know personally is Jon Garnant, and I know him well enough to say that when the chips are down, you CANNOT count on him to do the right thing.

But then, I guess you could say that about a lot ministers.

Anonymous said...

I have information from an inside source that the Judge ruled that the relationship was inappropriate but not illegal and the that there will be no charges filed. This indicates that your source was inaccurate about the contents on the phone. There is a lot of support for Dave in the church.

Anonymous said...

10:31 Apparently you failed to read the following:

"The judge’s ruling was that the relationship with the minor daughter was “definitely inappropriate.” However, he was not ordering a restraining order at this time, but he “highly recommended” to David Havir III that he needed to change his behavior toward the minor daughter."

Anonymous said...

Please, Allie, keep COGBS away from CEM! If this merger is allowed to happen it will destroy everything you and your husband worked so hard at.

NO2HWA said...

Oh, James, you took the bait just like Thiel does.

I never had any issue with football or baseball in school. My school always accommodated us in everything when it came to church issues, including being out for the feast for extra days and also when it came to immunizations. Throw your temper tantrum all you want. the fact is you still take the law and bastardize it to your own use thus destroying lives in a manner that Jesus finds offensive and never practiced. I am sorry your life ahs been so miserable and joyless. That's what happens when you worship the law more than that inconvenient dude you and Thiel claim you follow.

Anonymous said...

So I see that Malm faults the mother for taking Havir to court. From what we have heard, the mother did tell Havir to stop messing with her daughter and he would not. 12,000 phone calls and 9,000 texts is appalling and proves he would not stop contacting the girl.

The ministry of the church has always felt it was above the law and above any opinion of church members. Malm is a fool and the mother was right in taking Havir to court. The minute Havir or anyone like this in the church does something like this they stop being "brethren" and need to be held accountable in the court of law. The reason the church has had so many rapists, child molesters and stalkers remain in its midst was because of morons like Malm.

Lake of Fire Church of God said...

A little more information is needed regarding David Havir III having been fired as vice president of operations at Ron Dart’s (now deceased) religious organization, Christian Educational Ministries, in Whitehouse Texas. Was he fired only days before the hearing because of the inappropriate relationship with the minor child at COGBS? Or was he fired for something else? Why was his attendance at the summer camp the week before the hearing relevant?

Richard

Byker Bob said...

The sheer level of texts and phone calls alone is indicative of a mutual obsession!

Even if the responsible adult in this equation did not cross any physical lines, there is an emotional attachment ongoing which violates the spirit of his marriage. This is why many Christian ministers will not counsel a girl or woman one on one. They either have a fellow member of the clergy or their wives present as an accountability partner. It's been my experience that knights in shining armor who rescue a lady generally end up in bed with them.

BB

Anonymous said...

I read James Malm's comments this morning and my blood started to boil.

My parents went to the ministry after the son of a minister in another church area raped my sister. They did nothing and told my parents to let it alone and let God handle the situation. Being the brainwashed sheeple they were, they obeyed. My sister never recovered from that and committed suicide years later. This is what James Malm is advocating and what will still happen in the church if member's report ministers.

So I have two words for James Malm when he preaches his "go to the ministers first" bullshit. Those words are FUCK YOU! Fuck you, you insensitive blaspheming prick!

Anonymous said...

The mother said she saw about 12,000 phone texts that had been sent to the daughter by David Havir III. The daughter responded with about 9,000 texts back to David Havir III.

This sounds like a lot, and certainly it is more than casual contact, but older readers like Byker Bob may be misled by those numbers. The way young people text, it is easy to rack up several hundred text messages in an hour as a conversation goes back and forth in short bursts. The numbers above could easily be reached in a month of hour-per-day exchanges. Note that these are "phone texts" and not "phone calls."

Clearly the two were maintaining close contact, but no more than many, many other teens who stay in close touch with a friend.

Anonymous said...

Malm would rather you follow government than doing what is right.

RSK said...

BB, I dont think you're recalling that masterpiece of American cinema "The Last American Virgin".

Byker Bob said...

You may be right about my perception of the numbers, because over the past ten years, my texting activity has been mostly for business purposes. One tends to keep it brief with manufacturers and customers. It's also difficult to text while driving 85 mph on the interstates, especially coming back down the mountains from high country.

The judge and the girl's mother seemed to think those numbers were alarming, though, and I guess that's the critical element. If they got matching tattoos, that'd be the clincher.

Pam said...

"Clearly the two were maintaining close contact, but no more than many, many other teens who stay in close touch with a friend."

You are comparing apples and oranges. :-) These are not "OTHER teens." These are a teen and a thirty-something married male (with a young daughter of his own)...who is in an authority role in the teen's church. If I were the fellow's wife and found him spending an hour a day for many weeks texting a young woman, keeping in "close touch" with her (by text and cuddle...), I would have BIG questions for him. I would hope the pastor of the church...the fellow's dad in this case...would ALSO have BIG questions for him.

This kind of situation is a disaster waiting to happen. And, in most institutional settings such as schools and churches, it is utterly unethical, inappropriate, and more. The 50 year old MARRIED WITH CHILDREN Tennessee high school teacher who "ran off" recently with one of his 15 year old students, a mixed up, troubled young woman--eluding police in a nationwide chase for over a month-- started out exactly the same way. He was painted as starting out acting as a "father figure" for the girl, just "being her friend." As I said, this is a recipe for disaster.


The proper term for all this is that the male in this situation did NOT "respect the boundaries" that any sensible, wise man would recognize are absolutely necessary in his dealings with those young people entrusted to him in his role as a "youth leader" in a church. Quite frankly, MANY "modern churches" these days have strong POLICIES IN WRITING in place regarding interactions between those in leadership positions and those they are responsible for, specifically to avoid this kind of compromising situation. Unfortunately, the Churches of God have, throughout the history of the movement, seldom paid the slightest bit of attention to heading off compromising situations involving leaders.

Anonymous said...

One gets the impression they have more stalkers, rapists, and pedophiles than there are in the whole country!

Anonymous said...

I am in Big Sandy and it is sickening listening to those that are defending Havir. This is why the ministry has gotten by with so much abuse. Defend the guy who could not defend the sanctity of his marriage and make the girl and her family the bad guys. This is why Armstrongism is so sick.

Byker Bob said...

Aw, man! You think I might have been waxing autobiographical??? A gentleman never tells.

BB

Anonymous said...

A search of public social media shows that the minor is still connected with Havir III and his wife via Facebook. If not already inappropriate before all this came to light, I do not understand why the parents of the minor would allow this to continue. Why would Havir III and his wife continue the social media connection? Even if laws were not broken, given what is happening anyone in their right mind would know to break off all connections. Insanity. If her Facebook posts are any indication, Havir III's wife is staunchly standing by her man.

Angela Storey said...

I don't know what happened obviously as what I have read is unclear. However, I'd like to comment on the longstanding practice of cog ministers "counselling" people.
Frankly they seem to have an overblown idea of just exactly what they have to offer in counselling members. THey seem to think they have great ability in this area and in my experience and drawing on other people's experience of their counselling, they are untrained and don't respect confidentiality. I think it's inappropriate for them to counsel or get emotionally involved with people of the opposite sex, even if or maybe especially if they're a child. I wonder if Mrs Havir was comfortable with the closeness of the relationship with the child and Mr Havir wouldn't be advised by his wife to lay off. The ministers are not "God's gift" to us when it comes to counselling. THat is my opinion and I'm sure they won't agree with me. They need to understand about the closeness that can come through these intense relationships and frankly just not get into these situations. It is presumptuous for them to think they are the only ones who can help and to become overinvolved in someone else's life. Kids in the church can be taught to idolise the ministers and it could have been quite a heady trip for this child to receive so much attention from such a person as a minister in one of the cogs; THe whole thing has turned out badly and all ministers need to think about what they're doing before they embark on this kind of thing. It's all got out of hand and that child just doesn't know what she's got herself involved in and why should she, she's just a kid. Dave Havir, however, should have known better. I wouldn't have allowed that to happen with my kid I can tell you. Church people let their kids go off to church camps without them. I wonder about that. Parents wake up and don't let someone else become too prominent in your children's lives. This is a sad mess. The ministers have too much authority and sway in areas that are not their business. The parents are the ones to deal with their kids and if this mother thinks that something should be done then I'm glad she has (finally) done so. Church members can be intimidated and overshadowed by the "great ones" and we all wake up to them at a different rate.

Angela Storey said...

THe comment about texts between teens is odd, I agree. Dave Havir is certainly not a teen. If he has a problem recognising his position and his age then that is something else he needs to think about.

Anonymous said...

Well apparently this Dave Havir III has a sweet tooth for very young females and if these young girls had a real father instead of a coward to defend them I think the out come would have been a lot different. Dave Havir III should be in prison with the rest of the pedophile's. Maybe CPS and law enforcement should take a look around in his house.

Anonymous said...

The Mother discovered communications and images on the minor's cell phone in the summer of 2016 that would have been more than sufficient for criminal charges against Havir. However, out of fear for the emotional and psychological well-being of her daughter she did not immediately contact police, but rather contacted David Havir directly and asked him to cease contact. He refused. The mother went directly to Havir's father Dave, and he would not even look at the evidence that the mother had uncovered. Months went by, and sensing no resolution in sight, she finally turned to police. The ONLY reason the police weren't able to pursue Havir criminally is that the minor deliberately obstructed their investigation (probably at Havir's direction) by wiping information from the device. Even forensic recovery software was not able to retrieve the items that her mother had previously observed with her own eyes. So many people blindly supporting this man and they have never made an effort to seek the truth from the few people that know the truth. Keep trusting Havir, it's so easy to believe someone when they're telling you exactly what you want to hear...

Anonymous said...

It’s really sad when a mother is trying to protect her daughters from a pedophile Dave Havir III and their own Cowardly Dad helps Havir III gain access to his children. You should be ashamed of yourself Mr. Moody sounds like you need to share a prison cell with Dave Havir III.

Anonymous said...

Why are so many in fear of what may happen to CEM? Aside from personally liking Dart over the years, why is he given a break? Is he ok because he was not involved directly in some of the evil activities of leaders in the wcg such as hwa and gta?
What about the fact that he absolutely knew about what was going on with those people and yet did nothing for years, finally having a “heart problem” so he could break away from gta and fairly soon thereafter start his own ministry. Did he ever clearly and publicly admit that he was in an evil organization which is how it is correctly described here on this web site and that he was part of the problem? Do you think his wife knew nothing about all of this? What has she said regarding her acquiescence to such evil?
What about the fact that he clearly accepted a salary which came from tithes as a minister in the wcg and other orgs, a practice that is clearly against the laws outlined in the scriptures even if many organizations collect tithes? Anyone who reads what tithes are, from what they are taken, and to whom they belong clearly knows this. Ask any Jewish person who has a basic understanding of that belief system. Wcg and others do/did not teach voluntary giving with regard to tithes. It is true that tithing is a law to be followed, but those tithes have always belonged to the Levitical/priestly people which have always consisted of ONLY (the male line of) one tribe of Israel. Additionally, those tithing laws are in effect for the land of Israel that has a lawful temple. That’s it. There is no other way.
Do some like him because he was not as bad as the others? If so, one will find that scripture does not call such people who call themselves ministers good. A person is supposed to judge properly and elders, deacons (i.e. leaders), and ministers are held to a higher standard.
Obviously, one probably does not care what some commenter on a forum thinks, but if he believes he has got his judgment on good ole Ron Dart correct, scripture tells a different story.
One thing I’ve seen throughout the years is that people who accept such groups seem to feel that God would never let them go wrong and that they were taught correctly in the beginning. That is simply not the case. Scripture shows how people learn, especially those who come from “gentile” religions.
Wcg was bad from start. The calendar was incorrectly changed away from the longstanding Jewish mainstream calendar based on faulty “study”, the leadership went from a flatter organization more like the body which Paul describes in his letters to a fiefdom, and the head honcho was without a doubt a pervert who should have been executed according the law which he said was still in effect. The groups today still have problems like those. They are not any better even if they affect people less negatively given their small sizes. Size does not matter. Doing things with the proper spirit and truthfully is what matters.
Just because one has figured out what day the weekly sabbath is, that yearly sabbaths are still in existence, and that there are certain things one does not eat does not mean that he is “begotten again” as a called child of God.

Anonymous said...

Both girls associated with David Havir III [Karina Moody and Kyleigh Moody] have Facebook pages [search by name] with pictures of themselves and are quite lovely. No wonder Mister Havir spent so much time with one or both of these two beauties. What about the less attractive and/or plumper girls of the COGBS church? They had no family or personal issues? He had no time for them? Only the Moody girls required all his devoted attention?

Angela Storey said...

I wrote to ron dart some years ago asking him to address the teaching of tithing which has caused much harm to people. He dismissed my request by writing "he and Allie always found it to work for them". That was the end of the "discussion". His lack of concern for people who erroneously believe that they should tithe and suffer financially from doing so appalled me. He was too rich and increased with goods to bother to think about it or care. Just because he was better than some other ministers doesn't really cut it with me. You have to always be prepared to follow through and to do whatever is in your power.

nck said...

July 12, 2017 at 6:34 PM

Yeah,

Could anybody please confirm to the jury if any of the "plumper, less attractive girls" had any family or personal issues?

All rise.

nck

Angela Storey said...

Good on you for saying this Byker Bob. I'm sure ministers wives would endorse your comments. These men are untrained in counselling but have the hide to think they are just the man for the job. Counselling is never just a rational exchange of ideas. Emotional effects are always engendered. Very dangerous and plain stupid.